Talk:12 (number)

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Question[edit]

composite

Word or Number?[edit]

This sentence does not co-ordinate well:

"The word "twelve" is the largest number with a single-syllable name in English." "twelve" or "twelve" is not a number, it is a weird use mention error coupled with a category error.

It should say something like "The word "twelve" used in English to refer to the number is the largest single-syllable name in English." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.192.180.10 (talk) 17:01, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Juries[edit]

I don't think it's correct to say that juries in the U.S. typically have twelve members. I believe that it varies from state to state and from trial to trial. -- Dominus 22:54, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC) Tom Brady is number 12 on the New England Patriots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.115.88 (talk) 00:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's more detailed information about this: for criminal felony trials, 46 states have 12-person juries, as do DC and federal courts. Arizona and Utah have 8-person juries, and Connecticut and Florida have 6-person juries. For misdemeanor trials, 31 states have 12 jurors, as do DC and the federal courts. 17 states have 6 jurors; Ohio has 8, and Virginia 7.

For civil trials, 28 states have 12 jurors. 4 states have 8 jurors. 17 states, DC, and federal courts have 6 jurors. Virginia has 7 again.

So although US juries often have 12 members, they often don't, and I don't think it's correct to say that 12 is typical.

-- Dominus 21:12, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Monthly occurrence[edit]

What is the word for an event that occurs twelve times per calendar year? "Duodecanually"? All searches have proved fruitless. Faucett 18:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Flagship Number Article[edit]

This article on the number 12 has been chosen to be the flagship article of Wikipedia:WikiProject Numbers. This selection was in response to the coordinator of WikiProjects that each WikiProject team choose an article to be most representative of their project. PrimeFan 18:36, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Flag of the European Union[edit]

Until today, the page said:

Twelve stars are also featured on the flag of the European Union.

The page now says:

Until 1 May 2004, twelve stars were featured on the flag of the European Union.

However, the official graphical specifications for the European Emblem say

The number of stars is fixed, twelve being the symbol of perfection and unity.

and

[The stars'] number is invariable.

So unless I've misunderstood, the change in the Wikipedia article would seem to be erroneous.


Thanks for pointing that out to me. Wasn't aware of that, sorry, and they (the news) had other designs lately (like an outer ring with twelve, and an inner ring with 10 stars). But maybe they also didn't read that source... :) --Palapala 22:12, 2004 May 2 (UTC)

Duodecimal system[edit]

I'd like to know, for what reason part of this section was deleted lately: "Etymology (Weekley, Skeat) suggests that "twelve" (similar to "eleven") consists of two parts, the first meaning "two" and the second "leftover", so a literal translation would yield "two remaining [after having ten taken]", thus strongly indicating the use of a duodecimal system." --Palapala 07:11, 2004 Jul 1 (UTC)

Sorry, that was my doing. Anyhow, it is "two left over from ten". The word for "twelve" was derived from ten; nothing is derived from twelve itself, as one would expect in a duodecimal system. We continue right along with "thirteen", transparently "three" + "ten", again based on ten. In fact, tracing the etymology all the way back to the Proto-Indo-European language, there are etmya for "ten" (*dekm) and even "hundred" (*kmtom), but no single reconstructible expression for "twelve". So although in specialized uses English may have its "dozens" and "grosses", the core of the language has been decimal as far back as we can reconstruct. Do you know of a source proposing this duodecimal system? 4pq1injbok 02:23, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Did some more reading; agree with you — looks like they have in Lithuanian not only 11 and 12, but 11–19 built the same way [left over from ten] which completely destroys the argument... --Palapala 09:15, 2004 Jul 3 (UTC)

colorblind test[edit]

the Ishihara colour test is very interesting, but it seems to me that the standard version of the test doesnt require 12 to be the first plate, the one that everyone can see. Looking at websites and paper encyclopedias i've seen 25 and 52 used too. Numerao 20:15, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

We need to know if Ishihara wrote a standard and if it says anything about which numbers ought or should be used. If the standard does not name specific numbers, then it might still be interesting to note which numbers Ishihara himself used for the test and why he chose them. But if he chose them randomly and the standard makes no recommendation as to which numbers to use, then this should not included in the number articles. Anton Mravcek 19:55, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The geometry of twelve[edit]

Twelve has no 'unique geometrical perfection', of course: many other polygons are constructible. This section, if we keep it at all, should be condensed and desensationalized. I'd suggest that we not keep it, since this property is really more relevant to 6: if we construct a circle C and another circle D of the same radius centered at a point on C, the arc of C delimited between D and the intersection point is a sixth of the circumference. 4pq1injbok 22:21, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

The Dallas Cowboys do not retire jersey numbers, so saying that Roger Staubach's number 12 was retired is incorrect.

Wine bottles[edit]

Don't wine bottles come in 4x3 boxes?

It depends. Could you name a specific vintner and a specific market where his wines are sold? Anton Mravcek 15:16, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Religious magic?[edit]

From the article: "Religion inherits the number twelve for its magical properties."
What does that actually mean? It's sounds confusing and POV. Is this a referenced comment?
VigilancePrime 07:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

pokemon[edit]

in the guidelines for WP:NUM, it says that pokemon numbers are not important enough to include in articles, yet butterfree's number is in here, so i am deleting it. Blah42b10 (talk) 16:51, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Controversy[edit]

Twelve's factor ability and popularity in some calendar, geometric, and religious circles make it a target for PROV heavy claims regarding what can only be called an integer. Should this page be semi-protected? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.142.38.174 (talk) 06:11, 5 August 2009 (CUT)

Organization of number pages and number disambiguation pages[edit]

Dear Colleagues,

There is an ongoing discussion on the organization of number pages and number disambiguation pages.

Your comments would be much appreciated!! Please see and participate in:

Thank you for your participation!

Cheers,

PolarYukon (talk) 16:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Will do as time permits. I have placed an item at the top of the mathematics sub-section. If misplaced or non-valid, I prefer the whole discussion be placed at 99 (number), but options are open.Julzes (talk) 17:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

revert/undo discussion location note[edit]

I am placing (have replaced) 9999 'curio' (ref. momentarily). The reverting attempt (?) begun at 99 (number) is the core issue, but see also century. (Note: My time is somewhat limited at least through the early part of May).Julzes (talk) 17:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

the most familiar being the Etruscan League[edit]

More familiar than a Lydian/Persian located in the actual cradle of the Western Civilization? Furthermore, perhaps might be relevant a mention of 12 relating with agriculture (versus fingers for 10).

Religious mythology[edit]

Where are 12 caliphates? No they not existed - it is similar to 12 apostels Where are 12 descendants of Ali? No they too not existed - it is similar to 12 apostels — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.95.182 (talk) 18:22, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Eurovision Song Contest[edit]

The term 'douze points' ('twelve points' in French) has become one of the best-known pan-European phrases due to its significance as the highest number of points one country can give another in the voting of the Eurovision Song Contest. In fact, the phrase is so noteworthy that in 2008, Ireland sent a novelty act where he repeats the phrase to try to incline people to vote Ireland (it didn't work though...). Also, I'm not sure about other countries, but in the UK at least, douze points is occasionally used as a positive yet humorous response. Regardless of whether this custom is shared with other countries, in this context I reckon this would be important enough to add to the Music or Television section. Tadzzo (talk) 20:26, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

As with eleven, Online Etymology Dictionary is not an actually reliable source and our misinformation gets copied throughout the internet. We should be more careful, particularly with pages like these that will be used very broadly and by people with minimal English or sophistication with regard to sourcing. (E.g., this page's misinformation was just shared broadly on Reddit's ELI5 forum.) — LlywelynII 12:31, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Renaming the number Twelve to Ten two[edit]

I don't see any mention of the idea, to rename the word twelve into ten two. For example twenty one, does not have it's own name but rather is named after it's ten place followed by the one's place.

To further illustrate how it should follow. Thirty one, thirty two, thirty three, thirty four... Twenty one, Twenty two, Twenty three, Twenty four.. Ten one, Ten two, Ten three, ten four...

Why you ask? to keep the wording consistent and make counting for young children easier. Thus they can advance in mathematics quicker, adding into that the concept of compound interest in learning. Small changes in the beginning make a huge difference.

Naming ten two, as twelve actually makes it unnecessarily difficult for young children as it doesn't need to be. As adults we forget this as we've already passed through, the unnecessary difficulty.

Lowering the difficulty by renaming the number will help increase the number of kids that enjoy math.

The book "The Outliers: The Story of success" mentions how Asian countries such as China do this in their numbering system. [1] And partly because of it, they are more successful in math (taken from the book)

--RichardFry (talk) 18:47, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not the Academy of the English Language. There's absolutely no chance of this happening. Power~enwiki (talk) 19:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
Living in a world of absolutes are we? Did you know you could also argue with certainty. That no one in their right mind, would ever take their own free time, not get paid, and collaboratively create & edit an online encyclopedia? Yet here we are, doing exactly that. However I'm happy to see your quick response, and different point of view. Thank you.--RichardFry (talk) 19:48, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Outliers_(book)

Name[edit]

whose proto-Germanic ancestor had been reconstructed as *error: [undefined] Error: {{Lang}}: no text (help): unrecognized language tag: gem-pro (help), from *error: [undefined] Error: {{Lang}}: no text (help): unrecognized language tag: gem-pro (help) ("two") and suffix *error: [undefined] Error: {{Lang}}: no text (help): unrecognized language tag: gem-pro (help) or *error: [undefined] Error: {{Lang}}: no text (help): unrecognized language tag: gem-pro (help) of uncertain meaning.[

What manner of cock-up created that, and can we fix it, please? Nuttyskin (talk) 07:40, 13 December 2017 (UTC) Nuttyskin (talk) 07:40, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done Gap9551 (talk) 16:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Bingo names -[edit]

Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numbers#List of British bingo nicknames for a centralized discusion as to whether Bingo names should be included in thiese articles. Arthur Rubin (alternate) (talk) 23:33, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

12 is recurring theme in Bible - roots in Nature[edit]

I added... The number 12 is a recurring theme in the Bible: 12 sons/princes of Ishmael, 12 sons of Jacob/Israel become Twelve Tribes of Israel, 12 Apostles, 12 Gates of New Jerusalem. Like all sacred numbers, 12 has its roots in Nature: 12 lunar months in a lunar year adjusted to 12 months of solar year Roman calendar, 12 zodiac signs of solar year. 73.85.205.109 (talk) 14:42, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

twelvefold[edit]

Shouldn't the term twelvefold also be mentioned? --Backinstadiums (talk) 13:36, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

the number of greatest magnitude[edit]

Can somebody please elaborate a bit that sentence adding some examples? --Backinstadiums (talk) 14:52, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

In the lead...[edit]

This ends with "...frequently appears in the world's major religions". Obviously true, I imagine, but surely it also appears in dozens <g> of other aspects of human culture? Should this be more general? Imaginatorium (talk) 15:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

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